17: Kera “Puff” Rolsen on the Downside of Resilience, Quitting the Mission, and Leaving Well
“The Air Force talks about resilience as you just dig down deep and build resilience. What I never heard anybody talk about is the point where resilience fails. The concept that I really started wrapping my brain around is that resilience is a well, and in good times, you get the rain, and the well is full. You don't have to go into the cistern, you can dip into the well, and you can water the gardens of your life, right? When you hit the droughts, you hit the bad times, you're dipping into that well, and nothing is refilling it. I told the commander the day that I relinquished command ‘sir, I've, I've gone to the well and I'm dredging muddy water. There's nothing left. I just have nothing left.” -Kera Rolsen on Leaving Well
Kera Rolsen is a United States Air Force officer, strategist, and B-52 aviator. She has a broad range of experience from the tactical to strategic levels of planning across multiple regions of the world and is a graduated commander.
She holds masters degrees in Intelligence, Military Operational Art and Science, and Military Strategy. Her professional writing has been featured on the Over the Horizon journal, Angry Staff Officer blog, and Business Insider. She also a fiction novelist under the pen name “KR Paul” and operates KRP Publishing, LLC.
*All views represented on this episode are the views of the speaker and do not reflect the views of the United States Air Force or the Department of Defense.
“When your command is over, you don’t linger the next person come in and, and, and have the full reins and it was best for them for me to step fully away so that nobody was trying to have divided loyalties or anything, right? I think the, the last part is just personally, it felt like, it felt like failure.”
Additional Quotes:
On our aircraft, we have a system we call Bitchin’ Betty and it is a female automated voice that if you were nose diving to the ground and you're about to impact terra firma it is telling you pull up, pull up. I was getting that warning while I was out on, on the thing, my body is telling me, hey, it's, it's time you got to pull up. And man, I almost missed it.
In my change of command speech, I apologized to my team, “To my Roadrunners, I fought as long as I could, but you deserve a commander focused on the mission and I deserve to heal.” Those were hard words to say. No one wants to quit early. But I deserved better too.”
Links:
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Kera’s Twitter thread
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This podcast is produced by Sarah Hartley.
Transcript:
When your command is over, you don't linger. You let the next person come in and, and, and have the full reins. And it was best for them for me to step fully away so that nobody was trying to have divided loyalties or anything. Right. Like, and then I think the last part is just personally, it felt like failure.
This is Leaving Well, where we unearth and explore the realities of leaving a job, role, project, or title with intention and purpose, and when possible. I'm Naomi Hattaway, your host. I will bring you experiences and lessons learned about necessary endings in the workplace with nuanced takes from guests on topics such as grief, confidence, leadership, and career development.
Braided throughout will be solo episodes sharing my best practices and leaving well framework. Expect to be inspired. Challenged and reminded that you too can embed and embody the art and practice of leaving well as you seek to leave your imprint in this world. Kera Rolson is a United States Air Force officer, strategist, and AB 52 aviator.
She has a broad range of experience from the tactical two strategic levels of planning across multiple regions of the world, and is a graduated commander. She holds master's degrees in intelligence. Military Operational Art and Science, and Military Strategy. Her professional writing has been featured on Over the Horizon Journal, The Angry Staff Officer blog, and Business Insider.
Kera is also a fiction novelist under the pen name K. R. Paul, and operates KRP Publishing. Now a little bit of a note here, all views represented during this episode are the views of the speaker or author, and do not reflect the views of the United States Air Force or the Department of Defense. So Kera, I'm really glad to have you for this conversation.
I found your story on Twitter and reached out as you were sharing one year post a really big event in your life. Could you tell us in your words about that story? Sure thing. So I think if people are listening in and they have heard my name before, um, nine times out of 10, it is because they have found my Twitter account before I do get on there.
I like to present. A little bit of leadership, a little bit of My personal life, uh, and in this instance, it happens to be a point, a nexus of both of those things. Let's see, so it was September 30th of 2022. I voluntarily relinquished command about 8 months short of when a commander would normally give up command.
Normally the, the tenure is about 24 months, and I was handing things off at 16 months. I was very Fortunate, uh, that my leadership was so supportive and I did get command credit despite being so short, but the, the real reason was that I was, or if I can put it no other way than bluntly, I was dying, I took command.
Of my unit in May of 2021, and this is something that we work 15, 16 years in our career to get to. So, of course, I'm, I'm so delighted. I'm so happy. I'm humbled to be able to take command of a unit and to achieve this lifelong goal. And unfortunately, about six or seven months into command, I started feeling really sick.
And at first I was dismissive of it because I was like, Oh, I'm just, I'm just tired. I think it's the stress. I've got a lot of, I've got a lot of things going on at home. Personally, I've got a lot of things at work going on. Being a commander is a completely different job. It is incredibly demanding. And the specific unit that I had, we, Provided an annual briefing to an ever increasing number of stars for these general officers.
And it culminated in January of 2022, where I briefed the head of the United States Air Force, the chief of staff of the Air Force, um, General Brown. And I was so sick the Thursday before I left for that travel. I remember telling my, my number two in command, I said, dude, I'm either going to the ER this weekend, or I'm going to make it out to brief the CSAF.
Uh, fun fact, I did both. Uh, I made it to, I made it to that briefing. I completed my briefing. The next morning as I am packing up. To go home, I get a phone call from my doctor on base back at home. They said, hey, we've gone through your blood work from the visit last week, and you need to come in, and you need to come in immediately.
And I said, well, that's great, but I'm in Las Vegas right now. I'll see you guys, like, as soon as I can get back. So I scheduled an appointment, some of the, uh, the imaging and an extra stuff like that I was supposed to have within a month, uh, was, was moved up to more emergent care. Scheduled for the next week and I didn't make it.
I collapsed at work just a few days later, had to be taken to the ER, super embarrassing to be the commander and, you know, my troops are like walking me out to somebody's truck to take me to the ER. And then, uh, soon after I go in for a, a diagnostic surgery. Unfortunately, it confirmed that I had a chronic illness and it had already reached stage.
Three, I think by that point in time, I mean, now we're kind of the doctors and I are playing whack a mole, you know, symptom comes up. What can we do about this and this? And they tried me on one course of medication to control it. And that was a failure. They start me on a second course of medication, which is like in endocrinology, I would guess this is the equivalent of have you tried turning it off and turning it back on again?
Where they just, I mean, they just, Shut the systems down. Unfortunately, the body does not react well to that. And I became very, very ill on top of being ill just from that medication. Sometime in about the middle of that summer, before I was supposed to go on one of my last trips, I'm talking to my immediate boss, and who's watched me just getting more and more sick every single day.
And I looked at him and said, Sir, I'm going to go on this trip. And I'm going to use this as my litmus test. And, uh, I, I don't know how much longer I can hang on. And he said, okay, you know, we'd, we'd had the conversations like, Hey, what are What are some of the potential outcomes here? And he was incredibly supportive, you know, he was there to really help me make the decision myself and was kind of that, like, that kind of overseeing to make sure that I wasn't going to drive myself into the dirt.
And I, um, went out on that last trip and, um, there was a moment we had just had lunch. I went to the restroom to go, um, You know, wash my hands and I happen to look up in the mirror and just the way the lighting was I could see, you know, multiple bald patches on my head. My hair, you know, is now really falling out in earnest.
I mean, my eyes are sunken in and that was the moment that I knew and I just, I just started crying and I came out and, you know, my. My number two is out there with me and I just look at him. I was like, dude, how bad is it? He kind of like, he gives me that wince and he's like, oh, it's not, it's not so bad.
It just looks like you parted your hair really bad. And I'm like, oh man. And we have to go in. And then I'm briefing a general officer like 20 minutes later, trying to keep myself together. And so I come back after that trip and I, I went into my boss's office like that. that very morning. And I just said to her, it's time.
It's time. I can't hang on anymore. He agreed with me. He's like, yeah, the, the two weeks that you were gone, that's kind of some of the stuff I was thinking through too. And so we made the decision that I would, we would seek a waiver so that I would get that command credit so that my career could keep moving forward if I recovered from all of this.
So, like I said, incredibly lucky to have such supportive leadership for that. And boy, did I make the right decision. If you, if you read the thread on Twitter, I talk about in most of our aircraft, we have a system we call bitching Betty. I mean, it is a female automated voice that if you were nose diving to the ground and you're about to impact terra firma, it is telling you pull up, pull up.
And you know, I was getting that warning while I was out on, on the thing, you know, my body is telling me, Hey, it's, it's time you got to pull up. And, and man, I almost missed it because that was Monday morning. I asked my boss for the waiver. Tuesday afternoon, I'm sitting in my staff meeting because, you know, we can't, these gears don't turn quickly, right?
Like, we still have some work we've got to get done to, to get that waiver approved. I'm sitting in my staff meeting and somebody, you know, one of my guys is briefing me and I just, all I could do was kind of like lift my hand to try to like pause, get him to stop. And he stopped speaking and he kind of looks at me, he goes, I think you guys need to call 9 1 1.
I think I'm having a heart attack. Sure enough, they're hauling me back to the ER. I didn't have a heart attack but, you know, I had something that went on, you know, Friday comes around. It's like three days later and, and I, I basically have to pull my car over. I feel like I'm dying. The EMTs are like pulling me out of my car and they're like, hey, didn't we just see you on Tuesday?
And I'm like, oh, this is really embarrassing. Yes, I recall seeing you on Tuesday. You know, they pull me out and they're asking me all the, you know, the litmus test of questions, right? This, that, the other, how have you been doing this? How about that? Like, are you diabetic? I'm like, no. And like, okay, well, we're going to do a finger stick anyway.
And are you sure you're not diabetic? Your blood sugar is at like 300 something. And I'm like, I don't think so. But remember endocrinology, we just said, let's turn it all off and turn it back on again. And we hadn't turned it back on again. And so I was in a bad way. Managed to get out of command and and they were we were able to finally arrange medical care at Walter Reed because the first couple Doctors I spoke to refused to even take the case It was so complex and by the time a doctor is examining me what was supposed to just be a consultation Immediately became a pre operative consultation because the doctor there she was able to say hey you're You're in stage four.
You're in stage four now. We have to, we have to do this almost as quick as we possibly can. Not quite emergency yet, but like, you need to come back as soon as we can get you back here. Like, can you wait, can you wait here two weeks or do you want to go home and come back in two weeks? I said, I'll go home and yeah, sure an advanced directive, a living will, a copy of my will, and, and a hope that everything was going to go okay.
And when we walked in, we knew I was going to lose at least five organs, possibly a sixth one, and, and maybe like one of my kidneys too. So like we were, it was, it was dicey walking in, but they managed to fix it up. I only lost the five organs and, uh, now a year later, just feeling so much better. It's a long recovery.
Managed to leave the position that I was in with as much dignity and grace as I could muster and go get the medical treatment that I needed and, and work through that recovery. So, Kira, you say you only lost five organs, but that's a pretty big deal, and I'm curious to hear a little bit from you around, you know, you were when you were talking to your leadership, who said to you, I think that I want to help you, or maybe he didn't say this, but gave you the space to make the decision for yourself.
Did you know already intuitively that the decision needed to be made? And. Where would you have found yourself, do you think, if he hadn't said, like, I think it might be time? In retrospect, I think maybe I did know. And I think that's part of Right before that last trip, you know, we even engaged in the conversation of, hey, this next trip really needs to be the test, right?
If I can make it through this trip, okay, then I can keep going. And if I can't, then it's time to make the decision. And I think there were even times where I would, I would wait, lay awake at night, or I would wake up in the night and go, man, God, like, how am I going to. How am I going to tell my troops that I have to leave?
Because I think I was already figuring it out that, that that was the way things were going. But at the same time, it was such an odd juxtaposition because My subconscious knew that, but consciously I'm like, no, no, no, it's, it's going to get better. It's going to get better, you know, like this course of medication only lasts four months.
And after, you know, the, after the four months it'll improve and I'll, I'll be able to be just fine. I'll get through this. So, you know, a little bit of that line to yourself. And that was, that was one of the points that I made in that tweet thread was that there comes a time where you have to have the self reflection to recognize what's really going on in your life.
And set your ego aside, number one, for the mission and the group that you're working with, and set your ego aside, because you yourself need, you need to heal, and you need to recover, and you need to care for yourself, and I very easily could have stumbled blindly and pig headedly right into my own grave.
I think right after that missive to people on your Twitter thread, you talked about the, the mission will go on. Can you talk a little bit about, you covered it a little bit at the beginning, but you had worked really, really hard to get to that spot and to be in command and to relinquish that. And I think you said something about no one wants to quit early, but the mission still goes on.
Can you talk a little bit about the conflicting feelings that you had of your obligation and duty and responsibility? To both your troops, to your work, and also to yourself. Yeah, I think the, the conflict comes, it's multidimensional, right? I think one of them is the Air Force. Sent me to all of these schools.
I went to weapons school. I taught at the weapons school. I went to Air Command and Staff College in residence. I went to the, I went to SAS in residence, which is one of our advanced degree programs. I have gone through a, a leadership development for a squadron commander. So, I mean, all told, the Air Force has probably sunk nearly three years of education into me.
And so I felt, I felt horrible that I would have taken that opportunity and not use to it, use it to its fullest potential. I felt really bad, like, oh, maybe there was somebody else that, that could have used that and they could have stayed in command for the full year. But. Nobody goes into those, those courses going, yeah, I'm, I'm just going to stop halfway.
Right. Like everybody goes in thinking that they're going to get their full time. So that was 1 of the things that I think was a conflict for me. Another 1 is you take command and. You, you start building bonds and you form with your team and the team that I went with and the team that I led, it's a, I call it my travel team.
They, they spend, there is almost not a week in the year that somebody isn't out traveling. And then we go as a team and you know, like we got both coasts covered. So at some point in time, there's always one of my teams. Traveling, prepping the traveler, having just come back, and when you go out on, you know, travel like that, it, it helps you really bond as a team.
And some of my troops and I had become, you know, about as close as you can be while still, you know, keeping the command structure and not crossing across any lines, right? I think two of them jokingly called me mom. I probably should squash that a little bit, but, you know, it's just that's the kind of team that I had and to think that I would, I would leave those bonds and have to step away because that's what we do, right?
When your command is over, you don't linger. You let the next person come in and, and, and have the full reigns and yeah. It was best for them for me to step fully away so that nobody was trying to have divided loyalties or anything, right? Like, and then I think the, the last part is just personally, it felt like failure.
And I think that was the thing that I tried to articulate. Is that even for a commander that serves the full two years, everybody walks away feeling like they left something on the table. There's always something that didn't get done. There's always some project that, that's still going on, that's still being worked, that you just, you run out of time.
You know, the construction isn't done yet, or hey, or, you know, we're building this program and it needs about four more months of maturity. And I think everybody has that, but it hits. It hits the gut just so much harder when you're like, I could have had eight more months. I should have had eight more months.
And you know, in actuality there was, there was no way my body was going to hold up for eight more months. Yeah. I'm wondering if there is a set of words or a theme that would describe and maybe how you felt about change and the grief of loss before this and how you feel about it now, or has that been something that stayed true for you the whole time, your whole life?
I don't know if I would say I view the grief of loss any differently. I think the thing in my mind that changed the most was my view on resilience. The Air Force has done an amazing job over the last few years of recognizing that resilience is one of the things that will carry you through. It takes work to build resilience and I I used to, I used to be the number two in command of a formal training unit, which is a lot of very, very young lieutenants.
I would try to give the perspective to our instructors, you know, look, this brand new lieutenant comes in and they're having the worst day of their life and they tell you, oh, you know, my, my car's broken down and, oh, this is the worst thing ever and you want to roll your eyes and it's, well. You have to remember the worst thing that's ever happened to them isn't the worst thing that's ever happened to you, but this is the worst thing that's ever happened to them.
And that resilience for them hasn't grown that much because they haven't experienced that much. And, you know, as you get through, I think at this point, I'm at 19 years into my career. 19 years into a military career. You've seen some shit, right? Like, your resilience well is deep. And I, I had this perspective going in just based on everything that I had seen, the way the Air Force talks about resilience, that you just dig down deep and, you know, build resilience.
I never heard or heard anybody talk about is there will come a point where resilience fails concept that I really started wrapping my brain around is that that resilience is a well in good times, you know, you get the rain and the well is full. You don't have to go into the cistern and you can dip into the well and you can water the gardens of your life.
Right. But. When you hit the droughts, you hit the bad times, you're dipping into that well and nothing is refilling it. I even told the, the commander the day that I relinquished command, Sir, I've, I've gone to the well and I'm dredging muddy water. There's nothing left. They just have nothing left. And so that's the thing that I started really trying to articulate for people is like, yeah, you build your resilience and that is a great thing.
And it's a fantastic thing that the Air Force is helping people understand and it's teaching them. But I think you have to get to the logical conclusion that at some point in time, you will have too many stressors and you will have gone to the well too many times and you will dredge muddy water. And that's when something has to change.
And I was very fortunate that I did have an option. There was something that I could do. And that was. That was asked for relinquish command. I worry for the people that feel like they don't have those options because that's where that's where the path gets dire. Right. And that's where we have a whole other level of training about how do we prevent somebody from doing something that is.
You can't turn around that is unrecoverable. So I've, I've really started having those deeper level conversations with people. So, well, no, I would say my, my view on grief didn't change. My view on resilience really did. That's powerful. And I would love to read a piece of your Twitter thread and we'll link it in the show notes.
But you said in one of the tweets, in my change of command speech, I apologize to my team. And then you said, quote, to my roadrunners, I fought as long as I could, but you deserve a commander focused on the mission. And I deserve to heal. End quote. So I'm curious if you would talk a little bit about Did that sit well with the people that were around you?
Did it kind of get skipped over, the piece that you deserve to heal? You also said in part of your Twitter thread that people care and systems do not, which I agree with. But I'm just curious, how did it actually feel to go through that process? When you were holding both their needs and the mission's needs and you're deserving to heal in the same, in the same reality.
Oh, there's definitely a tension trying to hold both of those. Um, and, and yeah, it, it finally snapped that thread, right? Like I just, I, I eventually couldn't do both. What I found interesting saying that is I didn't think when I said, you know, I deserve to heal, I felt incredibly selfish saying that, but I found out afterwards.
So everybody's heard military speeches and changes of command, and you know, you go to graduation speeches, like, I couldn't tell you anything that anybody has said in half of those, right? Like, you walk out the door and it's immediately gone, right? You're on to the next thing. And I had, I've had a couple of people tell me afterwards, they remember me saying that.
That, that, of all the things that I said, that was what, What's stuck in their brain, because we do talk about servant leadership and we do talk about selfless leadership and it felt incredibly selfish to say. And I think maybe we've, we've pushed the tiller over too hard on the servant leadership because at some point in time, you have to recognize that if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of the others.
And so perhaps we, some of us, the type A types like myself, you know, we just, we want to bulldoze through it. We just assume every single time we're going to go through that barrier and it's not true. And maybe somebody just needs to hear someone finally say, look, man, like sometimes you. Sometimes you're not going to make it, and sometimes you do have to make the hard choice.
Yeah, that's an incredibly hard choice, but at the end, right, like, it did deserve to heal because it was my actual life on the line. And I had to make the decision, my job or my life. And for that, that was just the job. It was something I wanted so deeply and so badly, and it hurt to give up, but I was, I was going to run myself right into a grave.
As you continue to heal and recover, what are you walking towards or hoping for? Oh, great question. In the first few months, I just wanted to make sure I woke up from surgery. And I did, which was great. And then it was, you know, the, the path of healing, because to take out that many organs, you got to make a lot of holes.
Um, so we were, you know, just recovering from that, getting my feet back under me, getting to the gym and getting back to work. I was about, it was about two and a half months before I really got back to work and felt like I was kind of getting my feet under me. And from there, I needed purpose again, because to have gone from having, you know, like, elbows deep into all the, all of the things, and then nothing, you know, you kind of feel like you're in free fall.
So the, the first goal was really just finding a purpose and, and finding something I could do in my career that meant something. And I was, again, incredibly fortunate with my leadership. They said, Hey, you know, the mission that you were just doing is, uh, historically and chronically under resourced. We want to expand it, give you more resources and go from, you know, the squadron level and go up basically one entire echelon up to a group level.
And we want you to build that. That'll give you a sense of purpose really quick. Now the best part about that is it will actually activate. The new units will start activating in about two weeks here. So I've, I've spent the last nine, 10 months with that as a purpose and, uh, we're getting close to the first big step.
And then the next big thing is my 06, my kernel board will meet in March. So I'm doing all the things to get my paperwork ready and, and prepare for that. Of course, at this point in my career, right? Like most of the, the die is cast on most of that. There's not much to do differently, but really hoping to find out next summer that I made it.
And if not, then there'll be more decisions to make and, and, you know, continue on with the career. I love that. That's so exciting about the, in two weeks time, by the time this podcast airs, that will have happened. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything about leadership or quitting or change that people might be shocked or surprised to hear you say?
I think. Maybe not surprised or shocked because I do highlight it in that thread, you know, the mission continues. We jokingly say, I could die today and they would have somebody rehired in my position by tomorrow. I think maybe the shocking part is that's absolutely true. Boy, does that suck to realize that that's true.
Now, let me say up front that the, the gentleman that took over after me, he had been my second in command for a large portion of the time. So I had absolutely no doubts that when he took command, he was going to do just fine. Great person, great officer, and, and handing the guidon over to him was, was no heartbreak to me.
He absolutely deserved it. But to just kind of see them move forward, and I'm like, I'm like, sort of in the background waving, Bye guys! Have fun storming the castle! You know, and, and like, nobody, like, not even a backward glance, like, they're just, they're moving on, right? I don't know how a normal squadron commander leaving their change of command feels if they feel a little bit like that, but it just, it was abrupt.
That said, I think that was, we did that change of command on Friday and by like Tuesday or Wednesday I was on the plane up to Bethesda so I could go to the National Military Hospital up in Bethesda. So it was sort of a like, almost by design, like I had to wave by because I needed to go get that treatment as fast.
But yeah, it just felt very abrupt to Like, you're done and you're out. See ya. Good luck. But I think you said earlier, and I think it's really interesting to bring up again, you had made the comment that that's the best way to handle a transition is for the person who is leaving to bid their adieu and step aside.
So I think that that's just an interesting thought to think of the reality that you had. It was just It's earlier than you were planning, but the reality is you, you needed to step aside and someone was waiting in the wings. And I, I think it's interesting to, as you were talking about, you don't know how it normally happens when a change of command happens.
I would guess that there's maybe a set of things that need to happen for the changeover for the handover. But. In the decision to put yourself first and your health first, it all happened anyway, even though there wasn't that time. So I think I, I asked for Relinquished Command, it was the middle of August.
So there was actually about six weeks, and that was partially because we were just waiting for that, that waiver, and it was an awkward feeling, because it was like, we're pretty sure that waiver's going to happen. And at some point in time, if they say, no, we can't give you the waiver, like I had already told my commander, I was like, sir, I will take what happens in my career, but, but it has, we have to do the, the changeover, right?
Like, which is, I think maybe if that's going to, like, if anybody's going to be shocked, maybe it was the fact that when I did relinquish command, I knew that if I didn't get that waiver, um, that was going to have strong negative impacts on my career, right? Like, yeah. Usually when you leave command early, it's not by your own choice, but it's usually because you have been removed from command.
So we were doing all the things and part of it was. They wanted to make sure that we did have a genuine change of command ceremony so that everybody knew it wasn't that I was getting fired or, you know, anything else. I didn't just like quietly disappear. We did the, the full ceremony, but yeah, we, we had about six weeks to prepare for something that we normally take three or four months to prepare for.
Is there anything that you look back that you wish had been available? Or that you wish you had done, which I guess kind of goes into the second question of what's your biggest piece of advice for someone who is facing similar hard decisions. And I wish I would have listened to my body more. I think that's 1 of them.
The problem is that, um, for this particular chronic illness, many of the, the early signs and symptoms. Could be anything, right? It's a little bit of fatigue. There may or may not be, like, change in weight, changes in some of just, like, the body's systems. It's a women's health issue, so it's not well understood, and it's definitely not well studied.
And so when you only work with so many other women, I can't just go over and be like, hey, have you ever had this before? Isn't that weird? And then, of course, the double whammy of when you're the commander, like, you don't walk over to one of your troops, be like, hey, How's your uterus today? Right? Like, don't just say that.
So I wish maybe I had, I had listened to my body more. I don't know. At some points it's like we did everything. By the medical standards of, of how to treat this, I, I could say, Oh, well, I wish I'd never taken Lupron, which was the second medication and the one that, you know, basically turned everything off.
I mean, it essentially sends you into immediate chemical menopause, uh, among other things. And, you know, that was just, this is brutal, right? Like that was what was wrecking my body. But at the same time, if I, if I hadn't at least attempted it, I don't know if we'd have been able to halt the damage that was already going on, you know, and move forward at all.
So it's sort of a. I can't even really second guess everything that we did. But I think that's, that's a powerful statement around listening to your body. And your story is proof of that, of what happens when you do, ultimately. I mean, you, you may say that you wish you had listened earlier, but ultimately you did listen.
But what does leaving well mean to you? I think for me, it's, it is leaving a job, a position, even if it's like a volunteer position, something like that. So, you know, whatever you consider your passion in work, it's being able to mentally prepare yourself for the transition into the next thing. Some people, when, when you're in a job, like Command where, you know, it's a set time.
I guess maybe I told myself I was going to start, you know, making peace with that, that ending and trying to wrap up little details, or at least get them set up for the next person, you know, and that was months down the road. But how did it happen? So abruptly mentally, I wasn't. As prepared for leaving for leaving the job, so I would say to me, leaving well is.
Being wholehearted in doing the job that you're in and the job that you're passionate about, but somewhere in the back of your mind, having an awareness that. All good things come to an end and at some point in time, it will be your time to transition out and whether that is to move up, you know, in the company or the organizational ladder and move into, you know, greater responsibility or move laterally, um, because another opportunity opens up or, you know, like me, life happens and, and it's time to, to move on for your own healing and somebody will come in.
It's, Being prepared for when that does happen, even if it comes on faster than you would have thought. Yeah, I appreciate that. Is there anything else that you would like to share about your experience, about leadership, about any of the things? I think really it's just, you know, we talk, we talk about self reflection and that's I think that's an easy thing to do when things are going well, but I know that what I certainly found was that, like I talked about that somewhere in my subconscious, I knew what path I was on, I knew, I knew how that was going to end, but on another level, like, I was just, I was kind of lying to myself, right?
Like, this is going to get better. I had hope. I think maybe that's what it was. It was just a dangerous level of hope that the things were going to get better. And That I was going to, you know, I was going to recover, there was going to be a turnaround without, you know, extreme intervention or anything in my, my medical history, and that I could have just moved through.
And I think. If I had a little more self reflection in there, I could have, I could have started kind of squaring the corners on the two of those and making them meet up a little bit more. Fortunately, I have a very, very dear friend who was, who was with me through a lot of this, you know, and, and kind of really helping me through on the days where I'm just, you know, in a flood of tears and was helping be that kind of brutally honest look sometimes of, you're alive, but are you really living?
Is this really a life? You know, are you really living life right now? And I think, you know, there was a couple of times where I had to really think about the words, you know, he's telling me and go, you know, it's right. Like I'm, I'm not, I have to find a different, I have to find a different path. This is just, this is not working.
This is not going to end well. So I think having self reflection and then the absence of good self reflection or a willingness to tell yourself the truth, having close friends and family that can, That can tell you that, that, that horrible truth sometimes that, you know, can with kindness and grace and dignity, just remind you, hey, dumbass, stop being stupid.
You're going to die. So, so find you one of those. I love that so much. I think that there's so, so much importance around. Knowing who those folks are to you, and even telling them what your boundaries are around, like, I do need you to tell me, because I know that sometimes, and I would imagine you, you called yourself type A.
So I'm not making any assumptions here, but the strong women are often the hardest ones for others to support, I think. So, um, I just want to echo that, that if you are one of those people who might support Maybe be the dumb ass that doesn't know when to make the right decision, let your people know it's okay to call you out there.
So thank you for that care. Thank you for not only your service, but also your leadership and modeling the behavior of quitting being important when it means it's, it's for your own health and your life. And thank you for sharing so openly and for the, the Twitter thread. Yes. Thanks so much. And it was, it was great chatting with you today.
Thanks Kera. To learn more about leaving well and how you can implement and embed the framework and culture in your own life and workplace, visit naomihattaway.com. It's time for each of us to look ourselves in the mirror and finally admit we are playing a powerful role in the system. We can either exist outside of our power or choose to decide to shift culture and to create transformation.
Until next time, I'm your host. Naomi Hattaway, and you've been listening to Leaving Well, a navigation guide for workplace transitions.