22: Kelly Harp on Closing a Business, Being Loyal to Community, and Leaving Well
Kelly is the co-founder of Harp Design Co, has worked on several television projects with her husband, Clint Harp, and is finishing up a master’s degree in Clinical Psychology. Kelly is a lover of just about anything on NPR, an avid reader, coffee drinker, foodie, and quasi cultural & political commentator. With a creative spirit, love for all things beautiful, and an eye for design, she is hoping each day to bring something good to the world & also ideally take a nap.
“It’s all about going inside and figuring out what are your values, and then aligning your life with your values. I guess that’s the cookie, the alignment is the cookie.”
Additional Quotes:
I love that we tried -well, we didn't try - we did it for quite a while and learned so much about small business, about manufacturing, about taking care of employees. All of those things.
I will say “the people” included our kids and our family: how do we make sure this transition is smooth for them as well. And sometimes I've really had to remind myself, I am a people too. I need to take care of myself.
It was really important for us to do things well and be in our integrity as we close things down, and take care of people, first, the most that we could.
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Transcript:
And it's all about like going inside and, and figuring out what are your values and then aligning your life with your values. I guess that's the cookie. The alignment is the cookie.
This is Leaving Well, where we unearth and explore the realities of leaving a job, role, project, or title with intention and purpose, and when possible, Joy. I'm Naomi Hattaway, your host. I will bring you experiences and lessons learned about necessary endings in the workplace with nuanced takes from guests on topics such as grief, confidence, leadership, and career development braided throughout will be solo episodes sharing my best practices and leaving well framework.
Expect to be inspired. Challenged and reminded that you too can embed and embody the art and practice of leaving well, as you seek to leave your imprint in this world. Kelly Harp is the co founder of Harp Design Co. Has worked on several television projects with her husband, Clint Harp, and is finishing up a master's degree in clinical psychology.
Kelly is a lover of just about anything on NPR. An avid reader, coffee drinker, foodie, and a quasi cultural and political commentator. With a creative spirit, a love for all things beautiful, and an eye for design, she is hoping each day to bring something good to the world, and also, ideally, to take a nap.
Kelly, thanks so much for joining me. I'm so excited for this conversation, and I would love to start by just asking you to tell us a little bit about your own transition and change story. Well, I'm so happy to be here, Naomi. Thank you so much for asking me. Well, we, my husband and I ran a Harp Design Co, our kind of family business that we had worked on for a long time and created together in Houston.
And I should know the actual date, a year that we started it, but it was a long time ago, let's say that it was kind of emerging of a business that I had. And I think it was. Probably around 2009 or something like that. So anyway, and then we moved it to Waco, Texas, and then got involved in fixer upper and, you know, all the things.
And it took off from there. We closed it, uh, just this past year. And, um, so it's like, what year is it? 2023 that it's been a wild transition. I was thinking through, of course. The transition and some of your questions and doing this interview and it's so wild because we're coming up on a year of really making that decision and in a way it feels so long ago, but it also, I still feel very much in transition the good and the bad about transition is it I, it does take so much longer.
I think than sometimes we want it to. But I don't know if I really answered your question. Yeah, you did answer the question and I'm curious of some things that came up as you were talking around the year. You mentioned it's been a year since you made the decision and I'm curious what kind of feelings or emotions.
You had at the time that maybe have resolved, or you've navigated through, or maybe they're still very present from your own personal. Relationship with that transition and decision. I definitely think I have more peace about it. I, it was such a tough transition or such a tough decision to close the business, but it did feel very clear.
So that was really good. It definitely felt we had the clarity of. This feels like the right thing to do, but even when you, when you know that something's the right thing to do, that doesn't, you know, there's a lot that still goes along with that. So I think that also when you close a business or close a chapter of your life, probably in almost all areas, there's so many logistics to that.
A lot of your energy goes to just. Physically doing the things that need to be done. And it makes sense. Like as humans, we only have so much energy. And so a lot of it has to go to like the just physical logistics of everything. And so as a budding therapist, I'm thinking I'm therapizing myself right now going, yeah, well, it makes sense.
Your feelings would start coming up now because some of the actual physical stuff has come up. So I feel overwhelmingly thankful for the time. You know, I always loved art and design and I was. I was really afraid to study that, um, in college or really like, I almost, I wouldn't even let myself take an art class, which is so crazy.
Like, why would I, it didn't feel practical enough for me. And I come from a fan, a lot of my family's from West Texas. And it's just, if people know that it's very, you know, practical kind of in some ways, Midwestern ideas and not that anyone was overtly necessarily telling me that, but I just needed this.
What am I going to do with this degree kind of thing to where I couldn't even let myself take an art class, but then I have a BA in education, or maybe BS. I get those mixed up. But anyway, elementary education. So I ended up taking an art elementary education art class, which I loved at the very end. But anyway, so being able to be to, to work in that field and, you know, television as well and use all of My art and and even professionally see what I could do was amazing.
And I'm really thankful for that opportunity. So 3 things came up for me while you were talking and I'd love to kind of bring those back to you and then have you choose what you kind of talk about next. So 1 was very. Present when you were talking is just thinking about system design and how that overlaps with our decision making of designing our own lives and maybe that might correlate with your own experience and your talent and skill set and all of the things about designing things.
The other thing that was really interesting was talking about. The decision and how sometimes the decision comes with logistics and then the emotions of possibly grief and loss bubble up late. Maybe there's 2 things. Yes. Well, I think I'm going to choose door B. Yeah, I think that it makes a lot of sense to me and yeah, I didn't realize this conversation was going to be therapy, but that's wonderful.
To that, we have just been in the all of the physical decisions in in getting everything kind of closed down and a big part of that. It was really important for us to to do things well and be in our integrity as we close things down and take care of people. First, the most that we could, I will say the people to included like our kids and our family, like, how do we make sure this transition is smooth for them as well?
And sometimes I've really had to remind myself, I am a people too. I need to take care of myself. Well, in that too. And Clinton and I both, I think he would agree with that. And so. Sometimes you, and especially if you've been an entrepreneur, well, and maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but, you know, a lot of times you are really thinking about everyone else as you should, you know, you're the leader that's important, but you really do have to take care of yourself as well.
And so I'm probably on that, that piece where I'm like, how do I. Take good care of myself. And sometimes the tough part is you, you know, you've used your resources on everyone else and everything else. And then you get to the end and you're like, shoot, finding the resources. And which a big part of that, I would say it's time for yourself.
And, and yeah, I love that you use the word grief. It's true. Like transitions and loss or grief, even when you chose it, you know, even when we chose it and it felt like the right thing to do, there is a lot of grief. There. Yeah. Is there anything that happened when you made the decision to close down heart design co that then had ripples or ramifications that either you look back now and you're like, thank God, we did that.
Or maybe the flip is that you were like, I did not expect this to happen that you'd care to share about. There, thank God weren't any big, um, surprises. I mean, it was hard. It was really hard, but there weren't any like huge necessarily. Surprises, but I am really thankful because I think, you know, ours is kind of a weird story and everybody's has little, everybody's story has little unique, you know, weird oddities.
And for us, we were trying to do too many things and, you know, we had heart design co and then it, you know, kind of collided with what happened in Waco and the fixed wrapper effect and all of that stuff. And so then. Clint mainly was filming and then he and I did some filming projects together. And then he, then when Magnolia created their own network, he was filming his own show and in his show, he then ended up traveling for, and then we were also trying to, uh, build and run this business.
And so it was just. Like, it was just too many things. Like, I remember at one point I was like, wait a minute. We were feeling like we were failing and in one lens, we weren't succeeding in the way that we wanted to, but then it was like, we had to be honest and go, wait, like we're expecting ourselves, um, to do like five different full time serious jobs.
So if we want to give ourselves a hard time, I remember literally saying this to Clint, if we want to give ourselves a hard time about that, like we can choose that. This is a lot of huge pieces, and actually, I think being in our integrity is about stepping back and figuring out what we need to do, because if we can't do something well, we don't need to be doing it.
And, um, and then also, I want to add this piece in because I think it's really important. We. Don't have a lot of kind of the extra cushion and support around our family life that a lot of people are in our boat. A lot of people have more than us or less or whatever, but just putting that piece into some people are in a space where they have a lot of cushion, whether that's family, or maybe just extra resources, or I mean, our communities.
The absolute best ever. I love living in Waco for many reasons and not that it's not a challenge. There's a lot of hard things, but there's a lot of good. And I want to say that. And also there are a lot of challenges and a lot of spaces in which being in our community, we, we need to give and not necessarily like get a lot.
And anyway, that's. Whole other conversation that I would love to have, but just being realistic about all of that and our goals for our family and everything. Some people maybe have more cushion and they can make different choices. And that just wasn't where we were at. But I think that also brings up an interesting idea that maybe we can chat a little bit about when you begin something or found something or anything that carries responsibility and obligation and duty, especially for a community, especially for a customer base.
That adds a whole new layer of quitting or closing down or stopping something. And I'd love to talk a little bit with you about whether that came into play and whether there were any tidbits or advice that you've learned through the way of you and Clint's decision, because you did have a customer base and a group of people, a community that maybe there was some accountability or responsibility for.
Yes, for sure. I love that you bring in accountability and responsibility. I think that in our capitalistic society, we often don't put that in the equation and so, therefore, when we do put it in the equation and it equals to something not profitable, then we feel like a failure. We can't can feel like a failure when actually, you know, like.
Living in our integrity, whatever that means to each person, you have to put in your people that you affect. And that's a lot of people, regardless of what you do or anything you are affecting, you know, we know this, we are, we are a collective. We are waking up to that in this country. I think hopefully. So we have to think of our responsibility to our children, you know, and then yes, our employees and people that worked with us were the most important after that.
And then our customers and then our people in Waco that we, you know, we interacted with businesses around the tourism, you know, kind of industry here in Waco and our closing affected them and wanting to do that well, and also wanting to make the transition before it was. So dire that we wouldn't have the resources, maybe to close in the way that we wanted to or whatever it is a whole other thing to manufacture something in this country, which is what we were endeavoring to do and I love.
That we tried and well, we didn't try we did it for quite a while and learned so much about small business about manufacturing about taking care of employees, all of those things. But yes, I love that you brought that up because sometimes we can skip all that and just think about profits. I mean, that's what we're swimming and that's what we're told, you know, even.
I, in your bio, you said, I love to listen to NPR and I do, but you know what I hear about, I'm trying to think of the segment that it's like every day at 530 or six or whatever with Kai Ristal, but it's like the profits and where are we in the Dow Jones? And we struggle to talk about what about the people, like, what is the effect on the people here?
What about the people, can you imagine an NPR segment that talks about how the people are doing with all of that would be powerful. So, if anyone from NPR is listening, let's kind of amazing. Yeah, anything when you think about all the things that has happened, because there's a lot of transition and change in your life that we're not going to talk about today, but thinking about all of that, that you've gone through in the last year or 2.
Is there anything that you wish was available to you, or that you wish you'd done knowing what, you know, now. I think just an awareness of the collective on lots of levels is really, really important. I think thinking about resources in, of course, when we, I have a lot of social work friends, so I thank God for me.
Right. That's so helpful. They're so good about talking about resources and, and that comes into play in my degree as well. You know, again, my capitalistic mindset is like resources means money and it does mean money and acting as if we don't need money in this economy and in this country is. It's ludicrous and also resources means lots of different things.
I know here in Waco, we have an organization called Startup Waco and, and thinking about some of my friends that are entrepreneurs here in Waco have done. I'm specifically thinking about, um, Jaja and Devin Chen who do, um, child community. They are just phenomenal about the resources and it will come as no surprise that Jaja is a therapist and a social worker.
They just. Think a lot about, about their community and about the resources and how they can pull things in and how they can push things out, you know, and they're a part of a organism, you know, and we didn't start that way as much. And of course our business. Was super weird really in the way that it grew and we thought it would be 1 thing.
We thought we would just have this little shop and, you know, and also build furniture and then it gets connected to a national and really international TV show. And then we have this international audience and then I can't. Really even go up there during business hours anymore, nor can Clint, you know, so it turned into something completely different.
And so I give myself a lot of grace there. There was good and bad and everything in between. Of course, with that, I think, I think in every sector. So it's also an entrepreneurship or starting something, thinking of yourself as like a part of a collective and within an organism, within an organism, you know, and thinking about where the spaces I can give, where the spaces I can get is.
Is just huge. I think about that, too, going forward. That's a perfect segue into my next question around. What are you walking towards as you continue processing your decision and your transition? Oh, um, that's a really great question. I am walking towards the giving and the getting and not just feeling like I'm supposed to just give, but also where can I get?
I've really made a lot of transitions we have in a lot of different areas. I'm kind of even calculating like, Oh yeah, that transitions about that too. And And I am finishing up a degree in clinical psychology, just really exciting. It's, it's a 60 hour master. So it's just like super long and I've done it part time.
So I'm just like, when will I ever finish? And especially with this, here's another thing about transitions. It's like, it would have been so great to like finish sharp design code. Oh, I've graduated. And look, are you there? And yet that's not, that's not real life. And so trying to finish this degree up.
Well, and I'm about to, well, I have several months, but I will start, um, my internship and so thinking through how I can give and get there, what do I need in order to set myself up well to support my community, what do I need from that? And also how can I give within. Within what will be my professional capacity, and just, I just think a lot about that is my kids are getting older and they're in, like, lots of different school situations and everything just thinking about where can I, where can I give, um, within my community and what do I need to.
Are there three words that would come to mind if I asked you to describe your relationship with change and transition? Hmm, right now, this transition. I would say hard. It is hard. It's, it's good. Thank goodness. I feel really good about the decision we made and I'm really grateful. 'cause that doesn't always happen.
Sometimes you have to bounce back and forth for a while and wrestle. And I feel really good about the decision, but it's still so hard. It really is. And I think that's probably life. Dang it. I mean, I don't want to admit it. If we admit it, then it's true. I think that's probably really normal. It's pissed off as that makes me, I would say hard.
I would say illuminating sometimes when those really hard decisions come, it's like, yeah, I don't know. You want the illumination, but also it's. Just like, Oh, I don't know. Do I want to see all these things? Do I as a, you know, my higher self does, but my not so high self is a little exhausted with all the illumination is also just real bright.
Sometimes I want to say peaceful, but that doesn't completely capture it. It's like, I feel peaceful, but like peaceful with hard and peaceful with like really bright. Elimination or maybe it's like, I'm like, kind of grasping onto the peacefulness, you know, like, it's like a deeper level of peace. That I'm aspiring to believe in.
So it's interesting because we're recording this on a day that there's a full moon. I always think about when you said that about illumination, it's not always good. It shows us things that we may not. Want to see or be ready to see or even know that we need to see and so that really feels powerful around.
Grasping and looking for and hoping for the piece, but knowing that there's some, there might be some mess for ourselves, even personally, that we have to navigate through. Yes. Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. Yeah. And like the full moon, the context of that. It's so beautiful. And it's also in our human consciousness, a little bit scary, right?
Like a full moon and it, you know, we have some myth or maybe truthful myth. Maybe 2. I mean, there's some truth in it for sure. So I don't mean nothing as in we're making it up, but we have a lot of lore. Maybe it's a good word around full the full moon too. That's it is scary. And it's. Think about like our ancestors seeing the full moon or, you know, like the harvest moon or how it changes.
And now we have all this scientific jargon or not jargon. I mean, it's true, but I'll, you know, we can just put away the, um, spiritual, maybe we would say significance of it because we understand the science of it, but how can we like, put those, you know, both together and embrace. Embrace all of what a full moon means.
The luminosity, the scariness of that, and the gift that it is. I think there should be a whole nother episode where we talk about scientific bypassing of the spiritual because I'm here for it. Super interesting. Call me. Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. So, thinking of even just the scariness of things like the full moon and knowing that you can say anything you want.
Here on this podcast, is there anything about change or transition or decision confidence or talking something up that people are shocked or surprised to hear? It's just messy. I think even under the best circumstances, change and transition is messy. And I don't think any, or I mean, I'll say, I don't want to hear that.
You know, like I. I definitely am still journeying out of the binary and probably will be my whole life because, you know, I'm 44 and I lived so much in the binary. And so that's. There's a lot of goodness and transitioning out and if I'm, you know, that's okay that I can spend the rest of my life doing that, but I want things to to be black and white being in our integrity.
Um, we want to get the cookie. If, but like I made the right choice, you know, so where's the cookie and waking up in so many ways in so many spaces within myself has really helped me see like the cookies are, I don't know how the people get the cookies, but it is not necessarily tied to integrity. You gotta have internal cookies and I don't know.
I don't know about that. I'm still working on that. I know like a modality I really like, um, within therapy is ACT, A C T. It's, it's under cognitive behavioral therapy if, if people know that. And it's all about like going inside and, and figuring out What are your values? And then aligning your life like with your values.
That's I guess that's the cookie. The alignment is the cookie. Just trying to live in that while still interacting in a world that still does act in many ways. And I mean, I'm still a part of it. So I don't want to be like, Oh, I'm over here now. And these people are over here, you know, but just trying to live that out in a way and in an environment that I'm going to say is changing.
Cause I'm, I want to speak that out and believe that that is very much like, Oh, you got this outward cookie. That means you are good and you are integrous and, you know, even like godly, maybe, you know, in different spaces. And that's just not. Turns out that's not always the case. Yeah, I love the turns out that's not the case and so beautiful around.
Naming that as a reality that we we want the cookie. We want the award. We want the ribbon that says we made it. We did it. We did it. Well, and you have to have it from inside. I'm so glad that you said that. It's powerful. It's not I'm happy about, but, but it is reality. Yeah, it is really is. It's true. What does leaving well mean to you?
I think it's being in my integrity as best I can and being in my integrity and also realizing I'll make mistakes and being available for learning and apologizing and all of that, but trying to remain in what, in alignment with my North Star and with my values and, and being willing to take Whatever comes with that.
Oh, I don't want to say that. That's so scary, but it's true. Is there anything that you have not said that I haven't asked that you'd like to share as we wrap up? Well, I think that it's really important in transition times. To just try so hard to take the best care of yourself that you can, and I hate that, like, I just, uh, self care, take a bubble bath, you know, I hate all that, like, even though I really love baths, and I mean, like, totally take one if you can and enough, trying so hard to be kind with yourself and also realizing that.
Like sometimes it makes me so mad to be kind to myself, you know, like it's just a whole journey, but I do think it's really worth it and trying to lean on your community, trying to find friends, even if it's just one person or just somebody that you can really fall apart with that you can really be yourself with and I think that it's just hugely important and even finding just silly Transcribed Silly thing.
Like, for example, I have started painting my nails, which I'm like the worst at painting my nails, but I found this Expressy. Do you know about this? Okay, this you can get it at Target or your local, um, they have it on Amazon, but I've never been able to really paint my nails because I'm just too busy. And then they get all messed up.
And Expressy drives fast and you know what, it's just giving me a little boost. It's a 999 boost. So, you know, there you have it. Well, and I love what you said about, so you knew about yourself that that hasn't worked for you in the past, even if you've tried it because of the rest of the things that inform your life, you're busy, you have things to do kids, all the things.
So figuring out how to hack that for yourself is such a kind thing for yourself to say, but I can do it this way. It doesn't have to be the way everyone else is doing it. Yes, yes, yes. I, and that makes me think too, sometimes just, just being open to the possibilities. That's another word that I would use with the transition is possibilities.
Because sometimes when something changes, the answers are different, you know, than they would've been before. And sometimes it's like, oh no, I'm used to this answer, not this answer. And realizing that. That can create possibilities and things that you would have never, you know, even thought. So, you know, such as express the nail polish.
Well, and I, I just did a little chat this morning around what worked for us yesterday may not be what we need today. And I had a story about the shoes that I wear based on what I need for my body when I'm walking. I was so reticent to let go of these shoes that have been amazing to me and my body because I'm like, but that's what I know.
That's what I can count on. That's part of my ritual. That's part of my habits. But when I'm still, and when I notice, which goes back to being kind to ourselves. What worked for me yesterday. Well, it's not what I need today. Sandals quick, dry fingernail polish. Yes, that's so good. Holding loosely. Yeah. I was just telling my good friend, the one that I can fall apart with.
And, but I was like, it's something that exhausts me about this stage of life. And I mean, because even the stage of life I'm in is a very transition. And very transitional one, which has not been researched by doctors, but that's a whole other podcast. Yeah. And it requires so much rerouting. It's just like reroute after reroute and I was like, Kristen, I'm exhausted with the rerouting.
And she was like, yeah, you know, like she didn't have any answers, of course, because she's exhausted with the rerouting too. But just naming that was huge for me. And that's what you're doing and what you're saying, you know, like, and being aware that I think generally in life. It takes a lot more rerouting than we were conditioned to believe.
But also within transitions, it's a lot of trying new things. And that takes a lot of energy. And one way that you can fix that is go, okay, and our brains are wired. Okay. How do I tell myself a story or create a system that fixes this? And that's not a bad thing. That can be like incredibly helpful, but sometimes there's no system.
There's no story. It's just rerouting and accepting that. I love that the rerouting that is so brilliant. I, I know that for myself with menopause, there's a book that talks about your brain rewiring through menopause and rerouting feels like something that makes it more akin to a journey or a road trip or, you know, whatever.
So I'm glad you said that. I also am really glad that you talked about having the one friend that you can fall apart with. That's really important. Yeah, that's been huge for me. Yeah, I, I know that and that's hard and I hate to say that sometimes because we don't always have access to that. And it's not, that's not something that we can just, oh, let me just find that friend.
You know, that's a, it's a slow build. In fact, if you jump right in, that can cause problems. Yeah, it is. That's been. Huge for me having, I would say if, if people don't have that right now, you know, definitely consider therapy because that's a space, you know, we all have to be able to be seen anyway. That's a whole other podcast too, but I don't think that we realize how powerful it is just to witness each other's.
Journey in life and, you know, we barely have the answers for our own life. So it doesn't mean that we have the answers and therapists don't have the answers for us either. Good therapists know that we are the experts in our own life. And it's about helping us to find the answers for ourselves and get in values alignment.
I think, but just the ability to let it all down sometimes is, is really powerful. I think. We'll have some notes in the show notes around recommendations for therapy, including if you don't have access to resources in your community or your life. So we'll make sure to have that in the show notes.
Anything else, Kelly, as we close. Oh, my gosh, I've loved this conversation. Let's okay. Is this our Fridays at 9 now on our calendars? Okay. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Thank you. I would just say to you. Thank you for creating this space. Thank you for creating this podcast and having these conversations.
It's thanks for believing in yourself and believing that this is important and that's just a beautiful offering and I'm sad to say. Thank you. Thank you, Kelly. To learn more about leaving well and how you can implement and embed the framework and culture in your own life and workplace, visit naomihattaway.com. It's time for each of us to look ourselves in the mirror and finally admit we are playing a powerful role in the system. We can either exist outside of our power or choose to decide to shift culture and to create transformation. Until next time, I'm your host. Naomi Hattaway, and you've been listening to Leaving Well, a navigation guide for workplace transitions.